Posts by Half banana

25

Watchtower No.3 2017 - The Four Horesmen

by pale.emperor in

this is the first time i've read through a watchtower magazine in about a year.

although i've been our only 8 months it really git me how crazy i must have sounded when i was a jw talking to non jws.. while other bible based religions talk about the 4 horsemen and back up their theories with other scriptures or historical evidence, the watchtower have taken so such steps.

1914 is thrown in there as if it's universally agreed that jesus started ruling since then.. even when i was a jw i never really understood why, if the pale horse represents jesus, why is he first?

Half banana

Believe what the Watchtower says on this and you can believe anything. . .hocus pocus is far more entertaining than reality.

33

Apparently, William Tyndale was an early J-Dub?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

my wife and son were watching the january broadcast and one of the segments was about william tyndale.

william tyndale was a bible translator in the early 16th century.

i always knew that the org held men like tyndale, john hus and john wycliffe in high regard.

Half banana

It is dead easy to pick heroes and claim they “are one of us”.

Witnesses constantly crave evidence for connection with holiness and that's why Tyndale has been labelled a JW. No one other than a witness would make this connection!

Certainly Tyndale was sincere and paid for it with his life-- but he would shudder to be part of the JW cult.

It is he Watchtower organisation, even with internet communication, who still live in the Dark Ages.

9

A little stock-taking on the JW org. 2017

by Half banana in

the governing body of jws claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the biblical “last days.” .

ok they use bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention.

they think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is.

Half banana

It’s true the SS Watchtower is not imminently sinking but it is old and needs a refit to stay afloat. Of course scrapping is an option but if a venture makes money to the tune of one $billion a year and has eight million devotees; why stop?

One very good reason that it should be dismantled is that the JW organisation is the things I have already called it including downright wrong, misleading and harmful.

But business is business, even if the governors, mainly for tax purposes, call it a religion. As the wise entrepreneur CT Russell knew; God’s Holy Spirit and blessing comes down in Dollar bills. The history of the WTBTS and its associated companies has only survived by being ‘blessed’ in this manner. The doctrines and mad prophecies are fluid, what the Watchtower offers is a ticket of hope for the hopeless, it’s all yours-- but it‘ll cost you! And what a price! You pay for it with your life and your soul. Don’t ask the wrong questions (you will learn what they are when you join). It is demanded of you to give your all to this organisation and it’s hard to believe it when you put into print but that does includes your conscience.

So if the org is not dying because it is very rich what is going to happen?

It is evolving already and we have the evidence in it changing from a publishing enterprise to becoming another TV evangelist voice. Like Bob Dylan: it has gone electric. It is using internet IT to spread its paranoid message.

After Russell’s time when the Watchtower brand was up for grabs there were breakaway members who drew upon the Adventist roots of Russell and tried fusing a more socially aware religion along with the eschatological imminence at hand (they still exist).

The Watchtower trustees however went along with the strict “organisation first and last” approach and forget the welfare of the punters. So if we compare the success of modern Adventists with JWs there is a good reason for the former to flourish and the latter to struggle. With JWs the subtext is “jam tomorrow” but with Adventists and Mormons for that matter, they have jam today.

They can have not only a community of like minded believers but a financial and social safety-net with an ethos of healthy and wholesome living to boot. Livin’ the dream hey? Mormon theology is patently contrived and Adventism is the same as the JW delusion which has permanently to move the goal posts forward.

My feeling is that JWism has had its day, the internet unlike the Watchtower, takes no hostages. If the organisation ever was, it isn’t sexy anymore; in fact its ugly side is being exposed to public glare. It will be forced to concede to modern ethical practice but this will emasculate it.

55

Why so few XJWs online?

by StephaneLaliberte in

not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.

that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.

so, why are there so few of them online?

Half banana

When I left the org (I wasn't D/fd) I was glad to escape everything to do with JWs including ex JWs. I felt that way for about ten years but realizing that I was being shunned as if I was disfellowshipped, I looked on the net.

Funnily enough it was a JW friend who showed me exactly where to look because he was a regular viewer of ex jw sites!

As for the majority of ex witnesses I think many have put it down to experience and moved on. The half dozen or so friends of mine who have left the cult talk about it occasionally but are not interested in getting involved in campaigning against the Watchtower. Although on reflection, given the opportunity they might register a complaint.

With two of my children still captive, I can't help loathing the religion.

9

A little stock-taking on the JW org. 2017

by Half banana in

the governing body of jws claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the biblical “last days.” .

ok they use bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention.

they think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is.

Half banana

The governing body of JWs claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the Almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the Biblical “last days.”

Ok they use Bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention. They think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is. But this is beside the point. The essential case is that if the GB admitted they were not specially chosen; they would have no authority, no more credibility. If they denied being chosen, it would make them just like any other religion and a deflated failure in their self appointed mandate to preach the 1914 Kingdom.

And yet:

The fact that the history of the Watchtower organisation is one of total prophetic failure demonstrates beyond doubt that there exists a complete absence of divine guidance.

But sheep are not discerning; contrary to any reason they stick around with their wayward shepherd.

So where are we? We have an organisation falsely claiming divine guidance and 8 million sheep-like subscribers to their delusion.

Older assertions are routinely buried because they no longer are plausible such as, 1914 being the time when paradise would exist on the Earth. Or the generation which saw 1914 would be the last generation to see the “end of the system of things.” We all know the futility of Watchtower prophecies but now I think we are seeing a new direction. Prophecies don’t work, however their income depends on the big carrot of paradise so they make sure they keep the doomsday ‘top’ spinning to keep the flock hopeful.

Perhaps the recent and uncharacteristic inclusion in the Watchtower study that “the org is not always right” and therefore it is "possible" to defy the Organisation, is a defence directed to the (correct) accusation by lawyers that the GB demand of the flock absolute compliance to their word? The lawyers fortunately are more savvy than the WT who know that what they print is not what they expect from the flock. They did a similar trick when joining the United Nations Organisation; now grovelling to them, they printed matter in Awake in favour of the formerly maligned UN as a condition for membership.

It seems now instead of leading, the Watchtower is now committed to fighting a rear guard action. They are under attack from many quarters notably from bad publicity on the child abuse scandals for which they are reprehensible. They are placing Iron Age Bible doctrines ahead of common sense and above the secular law. Even if they proclaim otherwise, in practice they have no compassionate regard or rehabilitation for those within their congregations who have unfortunately been abused. On the business front they are ditching all but necessary expenditure on staff and property and are engaged in an unholy grasping campaign for money from any source. The educated western world (including Japan) has voted with feet to say no to Watchtower promises.

The JW organisation is a nasty delusional, life-sapping, mind-bending, family-splitting doomsday cult which with all its billions contributes nothing positive to the sum of human happiness.

Wake up governing body—wake up Jehovah’s Witnesses!

I hope we will see more evidence in the near future of the GB putting on their life-jackets and looking for the lifeboats. And for those still trapped inside, what can you do: stop contributing in any way and feel more free to share your dissatisfaction with your JW friends. Introduce them to critical thinking.

64

Is the Bible from Men, NOT God?

by the-Question in

for those claiming that- how much thought or research have you done?.

objective or non-objective?.

ever read the other books claiming to be from god?

Half banana

Glad you gave up gambling, that will help your peace of mind but you shouldn't go overboard... it doesn't give you the right to claim that the Bible is true.

You were reading the wrong books in the library. Any book written by a "Bible scholar" will have a bias toward supporting an idea that the Bible must be true. That is the wrong type of book to read.

You need to study the works of academic historians who have spent their lives impartially studying the ancient texts such as Thomas L Thompson and archeologists such as Israel Finkelstein and Neil A Silberman in their book, "The Bible Unearthed".

Academics take the emotion out of questions, religious people mainstream on emotion. There are no shortcuts towards proper study.

By reading the right books we soon get an insight into the naivety of people putting religion before reality. Religious minds have every reason to deliberately ignore scientific evaluations, it pulls the plug on their spiritual hopes.

17

Flip Flops to Nowhere

by Lostandfound in

how long until wt has flip flopped its way back to anything of the faith many of us knew?

who are the now dead ones giving evidence of their non captivity to babylon etc?

i would not recognise what goes on in a kh now and i was in since 60s when we had firm beliefs, now being eroded little by little.

Half banana

As a Jdub I always kept a niggling thought at the back of my mind; if it is the truth, why does it have to change? As CT Russell said “Truth never changes”. If you have to change the truth it’s not truth ‘cos truth stands forever. Idealists want this to be true; JWs are by nature idealists but are burdened by permanent Watchtower flip-flops. (It keeps the cognitive dissonance going!)

It’s true I collected a stack of these niggles over time and eventually they burst through the flimsy membrane holding them back as they flooded into the front of my consciousness.

As gung-ho JWs we probably all tried to defend these contradictions by telling ourselves that overall it must be true because it’s “in the Bible” or “JWs are fulfilling the Bible” or some other justification.

Why no backlash against the perpetual flip-flopping? How could humble, obedient JWs do so with their institutional “cognitive dissonance” running in the background, or since when did sheep ever rise up and complain?

40

What if Fred Franz had never existed?

by Magnum in

what if fred franz had never existed?.

those of you who weren’t around in the days when he was the oracle of jwdom or who at least aren’t familiar with the deeper publications he was responsible for probably won’t be able to comprehend the significance of the question.

i believe he influenced jwdom greatly, and the whole feel of jwdom would have been different without him.. during the 60’s, 70’s, & 80’s (not sure about 50’s), he was considered to be almost superhuman by some (a lot?

Half banana

Good question Magnum!

I agree with you Millie 210 that Jewish scholar friend of Freddie Franz was important grist to his Biblical mill. I saw and heard Franz when in his nineties at close quarters while working as a consultant at UK Bethel. An inoffensive even self deprecating man, his role in influencing the course of the JW org through the 20th century was I believe of prime importance.

He had the role of being the back room theological boffin as I understood from Bethelites. He was the right hand man of the more business minded Knorr who would defer to Franz on points of “learned” doctrine. Remember for example that he told president Knorr that a governing body was not scriptural –as I understand.

So Franz had smatterings of Greek and a fair understanding of the contents of the Bible which he expounded with certainty on the advent of Christ in very specifically his own day. He was baptized around 1914 and he saw his role elevated as God’s spokesman to declare 1975 as the fitting end of the (fictitious) six thousand years of the final seven, with one thousand to go for the final testing. All ideas clearly possible within the jumble of Bible texts.

Like Russell, he felt he was certain about the revelation of his end-times doctrine and along with his connections at the top of the organisation this gave him the authority and platform to fully promote his delusions. For half a century this contributed to the Franz outlook on all things Watchtower.

What Franz had was not logic... he always used non-sequiturs and wild but spiritually credible assumptions. His mindset and even his oratory I think, had echoes of Millerite preaching and date setting methods using faith in the Bible and a language of absolute certainty. If God is right and he cannot lie; therefore such and such. . .

His teachings are now shown to be false and played down by the GB but his oratory style declaring absolute certainties on divine assumptions remains the most effective way of bamboozling the flock.

So without FF who knows! but perhaps someone else would have taken up a similar cues to mislead JWs.

37

April 2017 Study Watchtower encourages you to defy The Society !

by BluesBrother in

at least, that is how i see it... the article "the judge of all the earth always does what is right".

paragraph 6 & 7 .

6 consider the experience of willi diehl.

Half banana

Thanks for posting this thought BB, It seems to set a precedent which will not help the interests of the JW org.

It is demonstrating the profound wisdom of using common sense instead of obeying the governing body.

Either the org is losing heart or they are softening up in the face of mass disillusionment among the flock. Whatever is behind this dilution of control, it gives the individual JW to make his own decisions on teachings.

This reasonable approach means losing authority... without authority there is no control. JWs will start believing just what they want to.

Good move GB!

45

New light in this weeks WT?

by Indian Larry in

anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?

for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.

in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.

Half banana

Baloney JW mythology!

The very concept of “captivity to Babylonish religion” is cult talk. It depends on further modern myths such as the existence of such a thing as “True religion” which idea is not based on any reality just a religious imagination. None of this sort of talk goes beyond the closed loop of cultism, it makes no sense to outsiders but to know what these terms mean is to JWs, a badge of membership.

However...................... if the idea that there was such a thing as true religion free from any influence of worldly or “Babylonish” beliefs and practices, then JWs would still not qualify in 1919 or ever.

The fundamental teachings of the Bible are fully based on astrological stories and the mnemonics for transmitting them down through the generations in pre-literate times.

Quintessentially it centres on the Sun god, his own male offspring born of a virgin at the third day of midwinter, sacrificed at the spring equinox and returned to his heavenly father in shining glory. At its root it is nothing more or less than the annual story of the Sun dressed up in mythical narrative.

It is impossible to use the Bible as the basis for religious belief without reference to these folk tales whether from Babylon or elsewhere. There is very little material left in the scriptures if you peel away the pagan input.